As chief executive of the family-owned, Virginia-based Feld Entertainment—which claims to be the world's largest live-production company—Kenneth Feld controls some of the planet's more enduring brands.

First and foremost is the Greatest Show on Earth—namely, the legendary Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, which has been in the Feld family for nearly a third of its 138 years. Then there are traveling extravaganzas licensed by the Walt Disney Co.: Disney On Ice, Disney Live, and High School Musical. And finally there's Doodlebops Live, which the 59-year-old Feld describes as "rock and roll for four-year-olds." The whole enterprise (founded by Feld's father Irvin, one of the original impresarios of rock and roll for grownups) employs thousands of performers and support staff (to say nothing of dozens of elephants and other large once-wild animals), owns and operates two mile-long private trains, and brings in 25 million customers—"children of all ages"—in 52 countries. Annual revenue is reportedly around $750 million and climbing.
 
But not everything under the big top is family-friendly fun. There have been disastrous incidents—notably the near-fatal Bengal tiger attack on Roy Horn in October 2003 that abruptly ended the profitable Feld-produced Siegfried & Roy act in Las Vegas. And there are a couple of ongoing lawsuits that have attracted a lot more negative publicity (including a withering 60 Minutes exposé) than many corporations could easily withstand.

VIEW FROM THE CENTER RING On Siegfried & Roy: "We took them from really being a specialty act into becoming headliners and worldwide entertainers." On PETA: "Let's get real, there is no 'wild' the way it may have existed 100 years ago."

In October, a federal court in Washington is expected to try an elephant-abuse lawsuit against Ringling Bros. filed by various animal-welfare organizations, alleging routine beatings and improper chaining among other cruelties. And two weeks ago, a superior court judge refused to throw out a nine-year-old lawsuit by freelance journalist Jan Pottker, who claims that after she published a magazine article about Feld Entertainment that deeply offended him, he ordered his security team, led by former C.I.A. operative Clair George (who was convicted and then pardoned over his role in the Iran-Contra affair) to spy on her and ruin her chances at professional success. Last week Feld discussed these and other issues in an exclusive interview with Portfolio.com

Lloyd Grove: You basically own and operate a rather treasured piece of Americana, do you not?
 
Kenneth Feld: It is, you know, Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey. It's 138 years old, so we're actually a year older than baseball. And it's been in our family now over 40 years. I think it's been in the Feld family longer than either Barnum, Bailey, or the Ringling Bros., for that matter.
 
L.G.: Wow.
 
K.F.: So it's sort of like being the trustee or the steward of a great American institution, and to make sure that we can do everything while it's sort of our turn to be that trustee, to make it grow and thrive, and to entertain as many families as possible.
 
L.G.: At one point you sold the circus to Mattel, right?
 
K.F.: Yeah, that took place in 1971. All during that time, my father and I still operated it. And then in 1982 we bought it back from Mattel.
 
L.G.: Now it's been widely reported that it was for $50 million, but I also understand it was in stock—which plunged. Then you bought it back for $23 million. So you didn't make as much money on that whole transaction as commonly assumed, right?
 
K.F.: Well that's true. We had a lot of Mattel stock at the time, which at that point was not worth so much.
 
L.G.: Didn't it go down to 90 cents a share at one point?
 
K.F.: I think it actually went down to, like, 50 cents a share. It was devastating because we basically had everything wrapped up in the circus, and it wound up being in Mattel stock. So the greatest thing really for us was when we were able to reacquire it in 1982. It's a kind of business that probably does not belong being a public company, in the sense that it's been around for so long, and we had such a long-term outlook on strategic things—how we operate, what we do, the investment that we not only put into Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, but the Center for Elephant Conservation that we have, which is a real passion of mine. So I think if we were a public company, the demands for higher margins and those things would maybe preclude some of that. It's a great business for the family, and I'm fortunate that my daughters are now in it.

L.G.: Do you have two involved in it?
 
K.F.: Yes, we have three daughters, and two are involved. Nicole, who is the oldest, is the producer of Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, so she's really responsible for the whole conception, you know: the creative team to put on the new shows, and she oversees the acquisition of the talent. She's also involved in the production of some of our Disney On Ice shows and also High School Musical. Alana is executive vice president and producer of all of our stage productions and the Doodlebops. It's a different kind of touring model that goes worldwide, but these are stage shows for families, and young families, so in many cases that's maybe the first theatrical production that kids will ever see—these Disney Live shows and the Doodlebops.

L.G.: You describe Doodlebops as rock and roll for four-year-olds?
 
K.F.: Exactly. I don't know if you've ever been there, but you would probably agree. I think the great thing is that a lot of the music is very derivative of music out of the '70s, so it's not what I would call total bubblegum. It's actually quite appealing to adults as well. The Doodlebops were on TV, which was produced by a company called Cookie Jar. We licensed the live touring rights from Cookie Jar. They've been on tour for two years, so this is going into the third year now with them.

L.G.: Give me a sense just of the scope of Feld Entertainment. With all these shows touring—Disney On Ice, Disney Live, High School Musical, Doodlebops, of course the circus—how many people are employed doing all this all over the world?
 
K.F.: We have something over 2,200 employees, but I think the most amazing thing is, we will play to over 25 million people this year around the world with all of our shows. We have three touring circuses, and currently we have 18 shows touring around the world. We'll play in 52 countries every year.
 
L.G.: And you have these mile-long trains that you own and operate?
 
K.F.: We do. That's really one of the most unique things. I think we're the only entertainment in America that travels on its own private rail train, each one over a mile long. And all the performers actually live on the train. All the equipment goes over the train as well.
 
L.G.: This is pretty much a unique business. I don't think there's any other like it of this scope in the world. But are all the people who work in the circus...are they your employees? Or do some of them, like your stars and some of your performers, have special contracts?

K.F.: No, actually, even the star performers, they're all employees. But they're on contracts that may be of a finite term. Typically, the star would actually be on a minimum two-year contract, and each show, when it's produced, goes minimally two years. It may go longer.
 
L.G.: But, for instance, Bello Nock is in the same boat? He's obviously a marquee performer and has his own identity, but he works for you?

K.F.: That's right, he's a full-time exclusive employee of ours, and he's been with us now—this is his eighth year.
 
L.G.: And what about Siegfried & Roy? You had a different kind of relationship with them, right?
 
K.F.: Well, with Siegfried & Roy, the relationship really went back to 1981, because I produced the first Siegfried & Roy show at the Frontier, and that went through, like, '87. And then in '88 and '89 I took them to Japan and then to Radio City. In 1990, we opened the show at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas, which went until October of 2003 when the accident happened. But with Siegfried & Roy, they were the stars of the show. We produced the shows, obviously with a lot of creative input from them, and they had a participation in it as well. So no, they weren't employees in the same way, in the same sense. There was a long-term contract, I mean, basically their entire career. We took them from really being a specialty act into becoming headliners and worldwide entertainers; so from '81 through 2003. We were in charge of their career as far as the production and all the live shows that they did.
 
L.G.: Obviously you're in a business that's "death-defying" by definition, "tempts fate daily," I think. So tell me, how did you hear about the accident? [During a live performance on October 3, 2003, a 380-pound white Bengal tiger named Montecore attacked and nearly killed Roy Horn, sinking its teeth into his neck.]
 
K.F.: The great thing about live entertainment—and all we really do is live family entertainment—is it is dynamic, things can happen every day. I think the reason why I love it is every time I go to one of our shows, it's always different. There are always nuances and things that happen. We do deal with a lot of risk. In the circus, you have people walking on high wires, you have people working with tigers, you have all of these things that go on. If you think about it, with Siegfried & Roy, they worked for their entire career with exotic animals, and this was just another day. And the difference, I think—and it may sound a little cold, and it is not meant to be—is that these people are so extraordinary and they have to have every day a good day. I mean, we could have a bad day. You could have to work today and have a headache, and you could still conduct this interview with me. These people have to be the same every day; they have to be perfect. In many ways, it's more disciplined than Olympic athletes, because the Olympic athletes, although they go through this constant training, they get up for that moment and that one day. All of our performers and our people have to be up and in prime condition for the eight, 10, 12 shows that they may be doing each week. So this was the case of something happening, and I don't really know that anyone will know for sure what happened. Roy is one of the most extraordinary human beings I've ever seen with his relationship with animals. There was a moment of something that happened. I firmly believe that it was not intentional, it wasn't what you would call an attack. I mean, if he had been bitten on the arm, he probably would've continued working the rest of the show. The problem was that it was on the neck—and the carotid artery—and that's the seriousness of the whole incident.

L.G.: They're not house cats, they're wild animals-and very efficient killing machines in the wild.
 
K.F.: They are, but it's also the relationship and the bond. If the intent was to kill him, that would've happened.
 
L.G.: So where were you?
 
K.F.: I was actually in Maryland at the time. I got on a plane, and I was there literally less than 12 hours later.

L.G.: And Roy Horn was in surgery?
 
K.F.: Yeah. So we had to make some very crucial decisions at the time, and make assessments of the whole situation. The one thing that I've always believed in and what we do here, we're in the family-entertainment business, but we feel a great obligation to all of our associates and employees. So we're always very direct and up front with them and tell them exactly what's going on, whether it's good news or bad news. We felt that's always the best way to work with our employees. There's a great level of trust and dedication they have. Everybody wants to know what happened, so I did gather all of our people together, told them what was happening and what I thought the prognosis was at the time, and that I didn't believe the show would be able to continue.

L.G.: So Roy has continued his recovery. Are you no longer associated with them?
 
K.F.: No, I mean, we're very good friends—there really is no business [relationship] in the entertainment business.
 
L.G.: Just in a business sense, they were obviously a hugely profitable part of your business, and then it just ended suddenly. Was that the case? You basically lost a profit center in the business?
 
K.F.: Yeah, it was a stream of revenue [$45 million annually, according to published reports, and Feld had a piece of it]. As great as it was, and as wonderful, our business is quite a bit more significant than any one production or one show. Right now it's pretty extraordinary, and I think most people don't realize 55 percent of our business comes from outside the U.S., 45 percent is in the U.S., and the greatest rate of growth obviously is internationally because there are more people.
 
L.G.: In what countries, Ken, are you having your highest growth rates?
 
K.F.: Well, we have a huge growth in China, Russia, India, and in Latin America. It's really worldwide. Last year we had five tours in Europe for the first time, and we'll have the same this year. In China we'll probably have about 34 weeks in 2009.
 
L.G.: How are you getting around those countries-by truck?

K.F.: Yeah, we operate in containers and trucks and those sorts of things.
 
L.G.: What's the price of gas done to your bottom line?
 
K.F.: It's, you know...it's affected everybody.
 
L.G.: To say nothing about the price of corn and grain, because animal feed is hugely expensive now.
 
K.F.: It is. For instance, our elephants are typically fed oat hay, which we import. It depends where we are in the U.S., but we bring that in usually from Canada and places like that, where they have high-quality oat hay, which is quite expensive. But for us, the fortunate thing is having the international business that we get the advantage of a weak dollar when we're abroad, and those things cycle around. So the dollar is strengthening now, so that's better for us here.
 
L.G.: You have to be alert to currency exchanges? Are you constantly keeping your eyes on the currencies and trading them?
 
K.F.: We are. We're always hedging the different currencies, just as general practice, and as we grow more and more internationally, those are the things that we do keep our eyes on. And with the economies, there are much greater swings. For instance, up until this year, we had not played Indonesia I don't think for 10 or 12 years. We went back to Indonesia this year, and it was huge business and it was a huge ticket price, which was quite surprising. And the other thing is, for instance, in Argentina, where before you couldn't get the average ticket price, now the prices are comparable and in some cases higher than what we get in the States.

L.G.: Is there any reason why you were out of Indonesia for 12 years? Was there some political issue there?
 
K.F.: There were a lot of security issues, and the economy was much more volatile. There were political things that made it not so stable, so once there was stability that returned, we returned. And there was this huge pent-up demand for the family entertainment that we provide.
 
L.G.: Now one realm in entertainment that you seem not yet to have cracked, although you've made many forays into it, is Broadway. You haven't done that since 1996 or something like that. Do you intend to go back and try again?
 
K.F.: I will never say never. It's not so exciting for me.
 
L.G.: Why not?
 
K.F.: Well, I'll give you a great statistic. Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, every year, all of our shows play to more people than all the Broadway shows combined. So it isn't a business in the same way, and you're not in control of the business in the same manner.
 
L.G.: I assume actors are more difficult to deal with than clowns.
 
K.F.: No, I wouldn't say that. That really isn't what I meant. It's more the customer base in the audience. I understand families, that's what we specialize in. I'm not sure I really understand the theatrical audience in the same sense.

 
L.G.: Now, I understand you're a privately held business, so you don't have to tell me anything you don't want to, but I am curious: Is the order of magnitude of the business something like a billion dollars a year?
 
K.F.: It's getting up around there. It's large. I'll give you the numbers and then you can do whatever kind of math you want. We play to over 25 million people a year, and currently we have 18 touring productions, and there are more in the pipeline. The ticket prices range anywhere from $25 up to forty-something when we play Japan. The average in Madison Square Garden is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $29 to $30.

L.G.: I see. By the way, not to dwell on the death-defying aspects, but when I took my kids in 2004, we saw the scarf twirling with Dessi Espana. Then, to my horror, I read some weeks later that she fell and died. I guess that's a pretty rare event?
 
K.F.: That is very rare. That was one of the unfortunate tragedies and, you know, she had been in the circus basically since birth, and I'd known her. And so it was a devastating thing that happened, and it's quite rare and it's quite extraordinary in not only our circus but virtually every circus around the world.
 
L.G.: But just as a marketing guy, the fact that that's a possibility—and not to be morbid about it—but how much of that is part of the draw? That people are facing death daily?

 
K.F.: I think all we have to do is look at what has become general fare on television, with these kinds of reality shows and things. They're what I call fake reality shows because there is the perceived threat of some danger or something. But the original reality show in the world is Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, and it goes from what these people do every day for a living. But their families are there. We have a preschool, we have a nursery, we have school, we have generations after generations of these wonderful circus people that do something that, in the mainstream, people don't get. And I think that's the thing about our business which is pretty amazing—that there's not that much of an industry, so there's no real understanding of the mentality and the drive and what makes the performers of the Greatest Show on Earth do what they do—and why. It is really that inner spirit of actually risking their life to entertain families and the public, and that goes beyond, I think, what most people ever do. And it shows you that spirit and it shows you why it is truly the oldest form of entertainment in the world and why it's still relevant and viable in today's world.

L.G.: To what extent are you pressured by the multiplicity of entertainment options—to what extent has that affected you and caused you to respond?
 
K.F.: Well, anyone in the entertainment business is vying for that discretionary dollar. I mean, we're three-dimensional entertainment. You can't get that from a film, you can't get it from television, you can't get it from the internet.

The internet is now probably 70 percent of our business. It's done through the internet because the most logical thing to buy on the internet is a ticket. Makes the most sense and it's the simplest thing to do. We do have a relationship currently with TicketMaster, and it's quite good. They're wonderful at processing the thing. They make it easy and they have a huge amount invested in the software that makes it happen and makes the acquisition of tickets easier than ever. And we have Ringling.com, and you go there and you can acquire tickets there through our website. But 15 years ago, maybe it was 2 percent on the internet.
 
L.G.: But in terms of what you're offering in the shows, the content, to what extent have you had to high-tech up your productions?
 
K.F.: We have, and what's been great is the use of LEDs [light-emitting diodes] and video. So, for instance, when you go to Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey today, in addition to what the live performers do, there is a video component that's used as scenic element. Sometimes it's used to give you a view that from the seats you can't see. So, for instance, we have in this show Over the Top, which is currently in San Jose, seven motorcycle daredevils in this globe of steel at one time, and you will see, because of a camera mounted on a helmet in there, their point of view of what they see when they do the act. You couldn't get a sense of that before, so we use the technology to enhance the experience. The other thing that we've done, which has proved extraordinarily well received, is an hour before the show, we have an all-access preshow. The public comes in, you've got your kids, you can come down on the arena floor, you can meet the performers, you can actually be up close and see an elephant painting a picture, you can understand all the animal behaviors that we do, and you get a connection that you wouldn't get otherwise. Now when you go see the show, you say, "Hey, I saw that performer, now he's doing this," or "I met this clown." And so there's more of a rooting interest.

 
L.G.: By the way, I should've asked this before, but are you insured?
 
K.F.: We do have our coverage through Lloyd's in the U.K. And what's amazing is that we have one of the best workman's-comp rates in the world because we have so few injuries. I don't know exactly what the differential is, but I know that we focus so much on safety and we have safety managers, they're going around, there are procedures for everything. We're in a high-risk business, but it's calculated risk, and the people are perfectionists. They rehearse, they train constantly, and they're well aware of what can happen.
 
L.G.: Did you ever, to your satisfaction, find out the cause of the accident that killed Dessi Espana?
 
K.F.: I believe it had something to do with a rigging situation.
 
L.G.: Now, you mentioned that this is not a business that really fits into sort of a corporate, public-company kind of thing, it's a family business. But are there any possibilities? Can you see that some big content company, like Viacom or Time Warner, might make you an offer of sufficient generosity for you to, say, "okay, let's do that"? And this time, you won't take it in stock.
 
K.F.: We're getting approached all the time. It's a great thing to be independent, and I think that I'm having too much fun. And we do fine, and we all make good money, but we have a level of independence. We have the ability to have creative expression, in all of our shows, everything we do. And if we decide we want to do something, and we want to spend a little more on the show, to give a little more quality or a better experience to the customer, we're not questioned, we just do it. It's a business, there is no question about it. But when I go out to any of the shows, whether it's Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey or Disney On Ice or Disney Live, you see the reaction of the kids and the families, you say, now if I ever forgot, I absolutely remember.

L.G.: If somebody came in and said, "okay, we'll buy the business, we'll keep you on because we need you, you have the expertise." What about that? You could still go and travel around in your private jet or whatever.
 
K.F.: But you know, I would have to have a really good reason, and no one's given me a good enough reason to do that. It can't be just about money, because the motivation is to do more and to do better.
 
L.G.: What do you think a business like yours would be worth?

K.F.: I have no idea. It's worth what it's worth. I don't know—what do they say? I would say it's priceless.

L.G.: Now you know I have to ask you: You've gotten a lot of unwelcome publicity over some legal actions of various kinds, including a lawsuit involving a Washington freelance writer named Jan Pottker, and, of course, there's a federal court case involving animal-rights groups that's supposed to go to trial in October. To what extent does that kind of publicity need to be countered? Very few businesses get a huge 60 Minutes exposé and recover as quickly as you seem to have. But still, it's a business problem, is it not?
 
K.F.: Well, first of all, I'm not going to comment on the cases that are out there. In general, I think if you look at the animal extremists, two years ago PETA sued me and it went to court and it was a jury trial and the jury found that I was innocent of all the things PETA was claiming, and the fact is—
 
L.G.: You personally, Ken Feld, were innocent, but there was stuff in the court record that suggested people in your employ were infiltrating animal-rights groups. You had this guy Clair George working for you-

K.F.: Clair George was never part of this. Anyway, the fact is this—that they're animal extremists that have an agenda, and their agenda is they don't believe that we should eat animals, they don't believe in pets, they don't believe in the use of animals in animal research or to wear animals, and obviously they don't believe in animals in entertainment. So that's what their belief is. Our belief is, let's get real, there is no "wild" the way it may have existed 100 years ago, and the only way people are really going to see animals is in some controlled environment, and they're going to have to see the human-animal bond—and that's what it's about. What we're doing with the Asian elephant is the best work in the world. We have the only sustainable herd of Asian elephants in the Western Hemisphere. It's only through our Center for Elephant Conservation—that's only about reproduction, research, and retirement of Asian elephants—that the zoos or anyone else can really hopefully propagate this species in the wild—that there are only 30,000 of.

L.G.: And you, of course, dispute the notion that it's cruel to these elephants to have them performing in circuses just by definition?
 
K.F.: Lloyd, doesn't it fly in the face of all logic? These are the greatest assets that we have. The one thing I will tell you is that we spend $65,000 a year on every elephant, and this is for their entire life, the animals can live 55 to 60 years. We have 54 elephants, we have only on the circus units 21 elephants, so the rest of them at the center are either retired, they're breeding, or they weren't suited to go on the road, so they're there and we support them. And so why are we going to do something to injure or hurt these animals? Aside from the fact that it's a personal passion of mine. I love these animals.
 
L.G.: On this other thing, are you concerned that if the Pottker suit goes to trial—and I know it's been sort of rattling around the court system now for almost a decade—that it's going to bring out all these seamy stories again and cause you P.R. problems?

K.F.: Lloyd, all I will tell you is this: I will always stand up for what I think is right, and whether it's with a Jan Pottker or whether it's with animal extremists, I will do what I believe is right, ethically, morally and everything else. And I will tell you one thing, I have never broken a law. I do not intend to ever do that, I don't need to do that. And I think the great thing is—and people lose sight of it—if you're successful, people are always taking shots at you. We do the right thing every day, we create the best entertainment, we make millions of people happy, and, by the way, we also make a lot of money. All of those things are what we stand for and what this company does. And the rest of it? There's always something out there, I don't care who you are, what you are, you know? So people will continue to take shots; there are jealousies, it creates a story, whatever it is. We will stand up and I will stand up for what I believe is right. And we will do everything within the letter of the law.

L.G.: Just to change the subject, you obviously took the business that you had with your dad and you increased it exponentially. I mean, it's orders of magnitude larger than it was when your dad passed away. And I'm just wondering what you see in the future. Where is the future growth in your business?
 
K.F.: The future growth in the business is globally, there is no question about it. But also we just concluded a brand new 10-year deal with the Disney Company, so we will be presenting Disney On Ice, Disney Live shows, and other Disney productions at least through the year 2018. We started with Disney in 1981. It's stayed through every management in the Disney Company, from Card Walker, Ron Miller, Michael Eisner, Bob Iger, and whoever's there afterward, and that should tell you something. That it's about trust in what we do with their brand, and we know how to handle brands. We know how to protect them in the right way, and we know how to present live entertainment in a way like no one else does. I think that's really the vote of confidence and faith that Disney has given us, by extending and broadening our relationship. I mean, if you think about the number of people that come see our Disney shows, we're basically the size of a theme park for them.
 
L.G.: In terms of just revenue stream?
 
K.F.: In terms of bodies that come in—and we're unique visitors because typically we don't get the same person four times in a week to come to one of our shows, whereas if you go to Disney World or Disneyland, you may go two or three times, but they count you three times, so you're not necessarily a unique visitor in that sense. When we get our 25 million people annually that come to our shows, that's 25 million unique visitors for the most part.
 
L.G.: So your family is now in its third generation in this business. I know many of your performers are from multiple generations. Bello Nock is seventh generation. How many generations out into the future does the Feld family continue?

K.F.: I can only look to my daughters—they're the third generation. I'm going to let them worry about the next generation.